ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Re: ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Postby nitrooo » 2015-08-04 20:53

Ok, thanks for the answers. I could discus about es 3.0 possibilities for a long time but this is not the right thread. Since I like the interface, docs, tutorials and the the art pipeline I will play around and maybe eventually I will give it a try. And how long will it take until 2.0 is available or rather how much time do I have to decide and buy it for promotional price? :)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Postby broozar » 2015-08-04 21:07

2.0 is targeted for later this year. The promo price will stay until 2.0 is released. It's safe to say that you will have all summer to try various toolkits,choose the one that you like best and still get promo pricing :)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Postby nitrooo » 2015-08-11 17:01

I played around with the shiva 1.9 and found many things which block rapid game development. I like the idea behind shiva and I would like to give it a try, but first I would like to know if there will be improvements in 2.0 to the following things I have collected so far.

Terrain editor:

1. modify terrain - add, remove chunks. Now everything has to be recreated!
2. create holes in order to place buildings, or create a cave, or just remove parts of the terrain which will not be visible
3. detailed textures near the player - can't achieve 1024 pixels per meter on android
4. move single tree or bush
5. remove single tree or bush
6. bend/wave trees and leaves by wind (for example by vertex weight)
7. better distribution of custom vegetation - now it is a total crap - they overlap and it is so difficult to paint.
There is something wrong with the density - when I select the chunk and set density to 1.0 there is so many trees that I can't even see the ground. When I set it to 0.1, it gets better, but even the number of the placed models is less, thay overlap - for example 3 trees at the almost same position and when I try to remove redundant ones with the brush, I can't do it precisely and all are erased, so I try to paint 1 tree and 3 grow again. WTF. There should be minimum radius for model which prevents overlapping and there should be min-max objects per chunk setting. Eventually I had to place trees as regular objects and I am not sure about the performance. Are the custom terrain layers batched?

8. no river tool
9. better road system with assigned material and uv direction (for example car tire tracks)
10. bugs with material layers - example: I create first layer 'grass' and second layer 'road'. Grass material has 'disappear under roads' enabled and road material has it disabled. I create road here and there, select chunks, render textures. I move road material up in the material view so it is covered by grass and only render under road (so I switch order of the layers). I create more roads, render, and here come some bugs - new roads render as white areas. I try to switch layers, paint, render textures again and everything else - nothing helps. I have to recreate layers again because everything is messed up.

11. better brushes - hard, soft, eraser, place one, place many...
12. modify road - add, remove points
13. terrain vegetation materials should respect other materials' Priority settings.

Other:
14. info clouds with simple descriptions of the mouse overed components
15. customizable viewport navigation - one should be able to set keys and mouse buttons to move and rotate. For example user could set the same controls for both shiva and blender and I mean all the mouse buttons - more than 3. Pressing alt to move is a pain in the a..
16. transparent materials rendering bugs like shadowing on transparent areas
17. problems with android build from authoring tool
18. lack of setPreserveEGLContextOnPause(true) in java

Those are the things I faced as a new user interested in using shiva, so please take it as review. I don't want to use external software to create terrain/level. I need fast and easy way. What is more, in my opinion, there should be no basic, advanced options. You should throw everything you got against other engines to compete. For axample no LOD in basic? Really? Combine everything in one version, avarage the price.

Please write in short if any of the above will be addressed in the new version so I don't waste time on learning the engine further.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Postby broozar » 2015-08-11 21:47

admittedly, terrain is not shiva's strongest point. it was designed to offer a megatexture-like approach, so if you are trying to use it on mobiles with lots of repeating textures due to space and performance constraints, it's probably not your first choice. you would be more productive with an external terrain editor (at least for the heightmap), but I can see you do not want to do that.

users have made terrain-based games with shiva on Android mobiles, most notably vlad's animal sim series (GP link https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... ames&hl=en). He did not use the shiva terrain editor though, he used models.

in general, the terrain module does not have the highest priority in the 2.0 dev cycle, so any improvements to the current system will most likely be in subsequent 2.x updates.

3. we plan to open the material editor for custom shaders in the future, but it will not be in the initial 2.0 release
10. it's probably just not loading correctly. there's a menu command in the terrain editor to rebuild the missing lower-res textures, try that one. also move the camera a little to force a (re)load.
13. ?
15. alt is a very standard way to move around the viewport
17. probably gone in the current 2.0 beta already - android games made with shiva are released regularly

all the other points are valid complaints which we will take as suggestions. some are limitations of the system (like 1,2,4), others known bugs (like 16), others features that are on our roadmap for future releases (like better roads), but probably won't appear in the initial 2.0 release, but in a subsequent 2.x update instead.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 beta 2 released!

Postby nitrooo » 2015-08-12 12:54

Ok, so there won't be a good level/terrain editor in at least one year. If you give tools than make them be good, am I right? Imported terrain cuts out animated vegetation. I am interested in creating for pc and mobiles, so I need a good level editor. There is no excuse.

I downloaded "Wild Cheetah Sim" few days ago to see how it looks, and in my opinion, it is very empty, static and dull. I was more convinced by technical demo about zombies which still looks a little bit outdated comparing to for example "Dead Trigger 2".

10. Please take a look at the image. I reloaded all textures. I think it's a bug.
Image

13. See the images - I wanted the outline material draw last with depth test on, but without depth write. It's priority is ignored by vegetation. Circled with red.
Image
Image

Sadly I have to say, that my next step is to download and try Unreal 4, or just finish my project in hardcoded C++.
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